757: Annie Duke | The Power of Knowing When to Quit

Episode metadata

Episode title: 757: Annie Duke | The Power of Knowing When to Quit
Show: The Jordan Harbinger Show
Owner / Host: Jordan Harbinger
Episode link: open in Snipd
Episode publish date: 2022-11-29

Show notes

Annie Duke is a World Series poker champion, a shrewd decision-maker, and the author of Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don t Have All the Facts and Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away.
What We Discuss with Annie Duke:
- Why "Never give up!" is objectively terrible advice (as even Muhammad Ali might grudgingly admit).
- Life's too short to keep fighting a battle that's only losing ground when you could better devote the time you're spending to more worthwhile pursuits.
- Why the worst time to make a decision is when you're already in the middle of it.
- How the sunk cost fallacy keeps us spinning our wheels in fruitless attempts at progress long after we should have turned back.
- How we can actually tell the difference between a worthy pursuit and a lost cause and what we can do to resist our own stubborn impulse to persist beyond reasonable defeat.

Episode AI notes

Decades of research show that our intuition about quitting when things aren't going well is usually wrong. When we are actively engaged in a task, we tend to ignore signals that suggest we should quit. We are more skilled at rationalizing away information rather than being rational about it.
We often struggle to pay attention to warning signals in the moment. Knowing about a problem doesn't necessarily prevent us from repeating it. Considering whether we would start a project fresh today doesn't effectively address past investment and experience. We need to let go of the idea that we can easily solve issues by starting over.
Kill criteria are helpful in decision-making. Kill criteria involve deciding in advance.
Helping founders set kill criteria for their startups. Encouraging founders to shut down before running out of capital. Setting benchmarks to determine progress. Getting founders to make their own decision to quit. Emphasizing the importance of time and potential in pursuing new opportunities. Challenging rationalizations for keeping a failing startup.
Survivorship bias and aphorisms contribute to our belief in stick-to-itiveness and the idea that if we try hard enough, we will succeed. Our belief in stick-to-itiveness is based on retrospective thinking rather than prospective thinking. Stories of people who survive extreme circumstances can lead us to believe that taking extreme risks is the path to success. The average age of a successful founder is 42 years old, suggesting that success often comes after multiple failures. Successful individuals stick to ideas that work and quickly quit ideas that don't, allowing them to move on to better opportunities.
Helping others make decisions can be very helpful for getting them to quit. Getting someone else to help you with a decision can lead to better outcomes. Kids often quit too early due to a limited time horizon. Angela Duckworth's book can help differentiate between a bad day and the need to quit. Parents or friends can assist others in determining when to quit. Assess the situation and set a deadline to evaluate success or failure. Help others avoid quitting too early by giving them time to see how things play out. Assist others in recognizing when it's time to walk away.
One of the biggest problems CEOs and executives have is firing people. They often hope to coach employees through performance issues instead of letting them go. A recommended approach is to set expectations and KPIs for improvement over a designated timeframe. If there is no improvement, it is time to have a conversation about moving on. Repeating the same conversation without change perpetuates the problem. Having a clear timeline and criteria helps both parties understand the decision. Focus on creating the necessary inputs for change in the employee's role.
If someone is afraid of being alone, they should consider if being alone is worse than their current situation. When someone is contemplating ending a relationship, they often realize they would be happier alone. When considering the possibility of a new relationship not working out, it's important to think about the opportunities that could be gained. Helping individuals see the opportunity costs of their current situation can be useful in reframing their perspective.
The hardest thing to quit is who you are. When the things you believe become part of your identity, it is very hard to walk away from it.
The endowment effect is a cognitive bias that causes us to value things we own more than identical items we do not own. This bias extends beyond objects and can also apply to businesses, furniture, relationships, and ideas. It is important to be aware of the endowment effect and how it can influence our decision making.
Goals can keep us motivated and focused on the finish line. Goals can also inhibit quitting even when it may be better to do so. Having goals can be challenging, especially for those raised to never quit. Goals serve a purpose but may need to be reevaluated.

Quick Takeaways

Quitting can lead to faster progress and happiness by freeing us from unfulfilling situations and allowing us to focus on more worthwhile pursuits.
Ignoring sunk costs and focusing on future prospects can help us make more rational quitting decisions.
Setting clear criteria for quitting and involving others in the decision-making process can help mitigate biases and emotional attachments.
Quitting should be seen as an opportunity for personal growth and better outcomes, rather than a sign of failure or weakness.

Deep Dives

The Power of Quitting

Quitting is often viewed negatively, but it can actually lead to faster progress and happiness. Quitting done well frees us from dead-end jobs, unfulfilling relationships, and other situations that aren't working for us. It allows us to focus on things that align with our values and bring us closer to our goals.

The Weight of Sunk Costs

The sunk cost fallacy, the reluctance to quit due to past investments, often clouds our judgment. We tend to hold onto things longer than we should, hoping for a turnaround, even when signs point to the contrary. By ignoring sunk costs and focusing on future prospects, we can make more rational quitting decisions.

Making Strategic Quitting Decisions

Ron Conway, an angel investor, emphasizes the importance of making strategic quitting decisions. He helps founders determine their kill criteria and sets future deadlines to evaluate progress. This approach allows founders to objectively assess their startups, and if necessary, make the difficult decision to quit and pursue more promising opportunities.

The Need for Mental Time Travel

To overcome the challenges of quitting, it's crucial to practice mental time travel. This involves imagining the future and considering the potential outcomes of quitting or continuing on a particular path. By evaluating potential future scenarios, we can gain clarity and make more informed decisions about whether to quit or persevere.

The Challenge of Quitting and Starting Over

Quitting can actually speed up progress, as it frees individuals from unproductive pursuits to pursue better opportunities. The belief that sticking to something will eventually lead to success is not always true. Successful individuals often fail multiple times before finding the right path. Setting clear criteria for quitting can help make better decisions. By recognizing when an endeavor is no longer worthwhile, individuals can avoid sinking more time and resources into it. Having a separate person or team involved in the decision-making process can help mitigate biases and emotional attachments. Quitting can be difficult due to the endowment effect, the attachment of identity and value to certain beliefs, ideas, or actions. However, quitting can also open new doors and lead to better opportunities.

The Role of Cognitive Biases in Decision-Making

Cognitive biases such as the status quo bias and endowment effect often hinder quitting or changing course. Humans tend to stick with the familiar and value what they already possess, even if it may not be optimal. Our beliefs and actions become part of our identity, making it challenging to abandon them. Overcoming these biases requires recognizing the role they play and actively seeking alternative perspectives. Having outside opinions and mentors can provide valuable insights and help avoid cognitive biases. Creating an environment where decision-making is separate from identity and emotions can enhance the ability to quit when necessary.

Quitting, Goals, and Evaluating Decisions

Quitting should not be seen solely as failure, as it can lead to personal growth and better outcomes. Goals can serve as motivators, but they should also be flexible and regularly evaluated. Holding rigidly to goals can prevent recognizing when quitting is the best course of action. Quitting does not mean that the effort or time invested was wasted. Rather, it allows individuals to explore new opportunities and redirect their efforts toward more fruitful endeavors. Admitting mistakes and adjusting one's path can be seen as a sign of strength and adaptability, rather than weakness or inconsistency. Quitting can lead to personal and professional growth, and it's important to overcome the fear of judgment and embrace the benefits of quitting.

Snips

[15:10] The Problem of Ignoring Signals in Decision Making

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (15:01 - 16:24)

✨ Summary

The broad problem highlighted in the conversation is the tendency to ignore signals indicating that things are not going well after starting something. The intuition that people will quit when they receive signals that things are not going well is incorrect, as research shows that individuals tend to rationalize and ignore these signals when they are already deeply involved. This leads to poor decision making as people fail to pay attention to the warning signs and rationalize away crucial information.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

We have the intuition. And I think that this is kind of the broad problem that I'm talking about in this book is that we have this intuition that after we start something, when we get signals that things aren't Going well, that we will quit. Right? Like if your fight doctor tells you you're getting permanent kidney damage, obviously we'll walk away. We look at Ali and we say, how could he not walk away? That's silly. Teddy Brenner said so and Ferdy Pacheco said so. And our intuition is that we will pay attention that somehow Muhammad Ali is unusual here. But what decades and decades and decades of research shows, and this is research from like Barry Stah, who's amazing, done all this work on escalation of commitment, Richard Thaler And Danny Kahneman who are both Nobel laureates, Colin Cameron, some of the real giants in the field, what those decades of research shows us is that that intuition is just plain wrong. And the reason that it's wrong is because when you see the signals you are in it, that's the problem. So when I'm climbing the mountain in the shadow of the summit and the snowstorm rolls in, I'm in it and I am going to make a bad decision about it. So this is the thing that we all need to realize is that we don't pay attention to those signals very well. We aren't very rational about them. And what happens is that we're pretty good instead of being rational. We're really good at rationalizing, rationalizing away the information.

[18:23] Understanding Intuitions and Decision Making

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (17:08 - 19:27)

✨ Summary

People often fail to pay attention to warning signals in the moment, such as when a project goes over budget and becomes significantly delayed. Contrary to intuition, knowing about a problem does not prevent people from repeating it. Additionally, the idea that one would make a different choice if starting fresh is flawed, as one cannot undo the history of their decision-making. Trying to approach decisions as if starting fresh does not improve the situation, since the context and history cannot be ignored.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

So there's a few things that we kind of think, right? Once we sort of understand this problem that we aren't good at paying attention to those signals in the moment. Like, I mean, here's an example, how many projects have you been involved in where the budget has tripled and it's now a year late? And looking from the outside, you're like, why are you still pursuing this? Like every the world is yelling at you that this isn't going well, but people won't give up on those things. And that's the same thing as climbing Mount Everest, right? I think we have an intuition. First of all, that we will pay attention to those signals. That intuition is wrong. The second thing that I think we have an intuition about is that if we know about the problem, that we won't do it. And that intuition is also wrong. Knowing about it does not help you one bit, not at all. And the third intuition that I think we have is, and I think this, this is something that I hear a lot of people say, particularly in business, in finance is they say, well, what I say to Myself is, if I had the option to start this fresh today, would I do it? So you can kind of think about like, you know how you'll often say to yourself, if I knew then what I knew, know now, I would make a different choice. Yeah, sure. So the idea is, okay, but what if you said, well, I do know those things, if I had the choice to start it today, in other words, if I hadn't, if I had no history with this at all, would I start It today? So like a simple example would be, if you buy a stock, say at 50 and it's trading at 40, to say to yourself, if I'm going to hold it, what I'm really saying is I would be willing to buy it today At this price, is that true? That's something that people do all the time. It's true. If I knew today what I knew now, like, would I start this project today? They think that they can kind of get around the problem by thinking about it that way. The science also shows that that does not work at all. It doesn't make it better. And the reason is that there's no way to undo the history that you have with the decision.

Speaker 2

Right. So we can't just make believe that we're making this decision in a vacuum.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because nobody parachuted you to camp for on Mount Everest, right? You spent the $150,000. You spent the years of training. You got from base camp to camp one, to camp two, to camp three, to camp four. We're not parachuting you into that spot. If you've been working on a project, no matter how over budget or how much you've blown the timeline, you can't pretend like you're making a decision to start it fresh today, because You've already been doing it. We need to sort of dump that as an idea that we can solve for it.

[27:35] The Usefulness of Kill Criteria in Mountaineering

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (25:03 - 25:35)

✨ Summary

Kill criteria are pre-determined factors that help mountaineers make decisions in advance, such as the predetermined turnaround time for summit day on Mount Everest which is set at 1pm. This means that climbers have to turn around at 1pm regardless of their progress, ensuring safety and a practical endpoint for the ascent.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

So this is where kill criteria can become really helpful. So kill criteria are basically what you mentioned, which is decide in advance. So let's take a really simple example, kill criteria from Everest on Everest, when you leave for the summit on the day that you leave for the summit from camp for they have a turnaround Time in place, they actually have a turnaround time for all the climbs. But for summit day, it's helpful to know this. And that turnaround time is 1pm. And what that means is that no matter where you are in the mountain, it doesn't matter whether you've made the summit or not, at 1pm, you have to turn around.

[48:34] Setting up Kill Criteria for Startups

🎧 Play snip - 3min️ (47:26 - 50:33)

✨ Summary

The key insight is about a method used with startup founders to establish 'kill criteria' by mentally time traveling to visualize the future of the business. By persuading founders to set criteria for when to shut down the startup, it helps to prompt a critical evaluation of the business's performance. Rather than directly suggesting to quit, the approach guides founders to recognize the need for closure themselves. This method includes setting specific benchmarks and deadlines, allowing for a structured self-assessment of the business's progress. Additionally, the approach emphasizes the importance of not persisting with a failing venture, highlighting the value of time and the potential for founders to redirect their efforts towards more promising opportunities. It also addresses the common rationalization of 'owing it to employees,' stressing the importance of freeing up their time to pursue other meaningful endeavors.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

And he does it by really helping them to get to sort of kill criterion to be able to do some mental time travel, to be able to see what the future might look like. So the way he describes it, so sit down and go Jordan, let's be honest, this startup is not going well. You know, whatever, like you're not achieving product market fit, you're not generating enough net new revenue, you know, whatever, you know, just things aren't going well. I think we ought to think about shutting things down. Now he's having this conversation with them long before it, they have to, because they have capital in the bank still. What his goal is that if he sees it, he wants them to shut it down before they're at zero. That's what his goal is. So what inevitably happens is you, you'll say, no, I know I can turn it around, which is fine. That's what people say in that situation like, no, I know I can turn it around. And here's the trick that he does. He doesn't disagree. He says, that's great. I know you can turn it around. I believe in you. You know, let's just look at kind of what your runway is and let's agree that you really only have like six weeks, two months to figure out if you can turn this around. It's easy for me to get you to agree to that because that's not in it. So when I say, well, let's talk about two months from now, you'll be like, okay, yeah, let's do that. You'll say, so what does turn it around look like? And he'll set benchmarks, right, which just might be like revenue generation, right? Like, maybe this is what the top of your funnel is going to look like in two months or it's going to be populated in this way. You're going to have closed this much new business. You're going to have done the work to see if customers want your product, whatever it is that it is. He does that with you. So like Jordan, what do you think good looks like? What do you think the signals would be in a couple of months that this still isn't going your way and that you ought to shut it down?

Speaker 2

He's getting us to set up kill criteria for ourselves in the moment without saying, right, without being too obvious about it, I guess.

Speaker 1

Well, because he's not saying we should kill it now because of these criteria, he's saying, let's talk about it in six weeks.

Speaker 2

And he's doing this because even though he already knows you're supposed to quit, he just knows you're not going to do it.

Speaker 1

You're not going to do it. So he's trying to help you to get there yourself. So now we've worked together and we set these kill criteria. Now Ron says to the founder, okay, let's meet up in six weeks or let's meet up in two months, whatever that deadline is. You always want to have a deadline for it. Let's meet up and let's talk about it and see if things have improved. And then he does. And they're just much more likely to shut it down then and return the capital to the investors at that point. And I think that one of the things that's so important about what he really says to the founders is, look, you're clearly a very smart, very gritty, very driven individual who could be Doing amazing things. Your life is too short to spend your time on this thing that isn't working because you could free up that time to go work on something that is. And I think that's such an important thing. And then sometimes, you know, with these rationalizations, what he'll hear from the founder is, but I owe it to my employees. Yeah. I owe it to my employees. And he says, no, their lives are short too. And they're working for you for little cash comp in exchange for equity that we have now together determined is not worth it. All right. And their life is too short to keep them here. You need to let them go and do something that's going to change the world also.

[50:00] The Danger of Survivorship Bias

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (50:52 - 51:57)

✨ Summary

Survivorship bias leads us to believe that sticking to something will lead to success, but this is not necessarily true. The success stories we hear about are often not representative of the average experience. Instead of blindly following these stories, it is important to recognize that what works in retrospect may not work prospectively. Successful individuals often had to go through multiple failures and attempts before they achieved success. The key is not just sticking to one thing, but being willing to try different approaches and quickly abandoning what is not working in order to move on to a better idea.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

And I think that one of the reasons why we don't think that is because of survivorship bias and the aphorisms that go along with that, right? Like if at first you don't succeed, try to try again, like, why do we have that? Well, because we can name a lot of success stories who stuck to it, you know, come what may. And what we think is, oh, then if we stick to it, we'll succeed. But what's true in retrospect is not true prospectively. And so we hear these stories of the people who got to the brink of death and managed to survive. And we think, well, then that's the way to do it. Get to the brink of death. And then we'll manage to survive. And it's not true. And, you know, if you look at the average age of founder of unicorn, it's 42 years old.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, I didn't know that. That's, I mean, that's my age.

Speaker 1

You know, it's not the Zuckerberg's. These people have failed a lot. They've tried stuff. It didn't work. They've tried other stuff. It didn't work, you know, and then they come across an idea and it does work. And, you know, why is that? Well, because they're sticking to the stuff that's working later, they're quitting the other stuff as quickly as they can once they figure out it's not working. So they can move on to a better idea.

[01:08:36] Strategies for helping others with quitting decisions

🎧 Play snip - 2min️ (01:07:20 - 01:09:00)

✨ Summary

The insight suggests two effective strategies for helping others with quitting decisions. Firstly, offering support and coaching from an external perspective can significantly aid in the decision-making process. Research indicates that having someone else assist with the decision leads to better outcomes. Additionally, particularly with children, it's important to help them differentiate between short-term setbacks and long-term prospects, as they may lack the ability to discern this on their own. Parents or friends can support by setting a timeframe to evaluate the situation, defining what constitutes success or failure, and helping the individual assess whether to continue or quit, ultimately preventing premature quitting as well as persisting for too long.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

So I think there's two really good strategies. I mean, first of all, the fact that you're helping them is helpful, right? Because we can see things from the outside that people from the inside can't see. And so just the fact that you're trying to help and coach them is going to be very helpful for getting them to quit. And there's lots of evidence that shows that if you get somebody else to help you with the decision, you'll do better. But I think that this actually works. I mean, if we're talking about kids, kids also have the problem of quitting too early, mainly because they just don't have the time horizon to be able to know the difference between a Bad day on the soccer field. And you know, it's going to get better versus I had a bad day and I didn't score any goals. And now I want to quit. So you know, and that's the point of Angela Duckworth's book. It's why people should get her book because we do want to be able to tell the difference between those two things. And a parent can really help, or you as a friend can help somebody do that on both sides of the equation. So when somebody is saying that they want to quit, it may be that it's worthwhile. It may be that it's not. It may be that they're willing to pull the trigger, maybe not. Whatever you see, you can do exactly what Ron Conway does and says, that's fine. How long can you take the situation for as it sits? So maybe for your kid, it's like, look, you've got 10 more games left. Let's stick it out and let's look at what's happening after the end of those 10 games. And then you figure out what does success look like and what does failure look like? What does it look like that it's something that you would want to continue? And what does it look like if it's something that you don't want to continue? And write those things down and whatever that deadline is, then you can help them with both sides of the equation, both not quitting too early because you're allowing them some time To try to see how it plays out. And also with not quitting too late, because you're helping them to see that they should walk away.

[01:08:46] Coaching CEOs on Firing People

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:09:00 - 01:10:24)

✨ Summary

CEOs often struggle with firing people, hoping they can coach employees to turn things around. Instead, they should set clear KPIs, have a follow-up discussion in six weeks, and if there's no improvement, it's time to talk about moving on. This approach not only accelerates the decision-making process but also helps the employee realize that it's the right decision for both parties, setting clear criteria for potential termination and creating focus on creating the necessary change.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

One of the examples I give is I coach CEOs, executives, and I will tell you one of the biggest problems people have is in firing people. They don't want to do it. When it's obvious that having nobody in the role would be better than having that person in the role, they still won't do it. They're hoping they can coach them through it. They're hoping they can get them to turn it around. This is just the way we are. And so what I say is, I want you to sit down with them and do the Ron Conway thing. Sit down over the next six weeks, this is what I expect to see. Just give them some KPIs and agree to what those are with them. And then say, we'll talk again in six weeks. And if you haven't, and if we don't see this turn around, then I think it's time for us to talk about what the next step is, which would be moving on. Because otherwise, what I see with them is they go and they have a discussion. They tell the employee what they think is going wrong. The employee says, I hear you, they make all sorts of promises. They say they're going to turn it around. And then it's six weeks later, and they back in the same spot and they have the same conversation. And this goes on forever. And this actually not only makes it so that they can get that to that decision faster, but it gets the employee to realize that it's the right decision also.

Speaker 2

Right. It's like kill criteria for both of you. Okay. I'm going to fire you in six weeks. And the other person goes, okay, I'm going to have to move on in six weeks unless these things change. Right. And then you can talk about what are the inputs that would create the change and you now have some focus to what you're doing in the role.

[01:10:31] Overcoming Fear of Being Alone and Dating Again

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:11:12 - 01:12:27)

✨ Summary

The fear of loneliness in relationships can be reframed by considering if being alone would be worse than the current situation. Individuals often realize that they would be happier alone when they contemplate walking away from a relationship. Additionally, the fear of dating someone new and it not working out can be addressed by considering the probability of happiness in the current relationship versus the potential for happiness with a new partner. Encouraging individuals to think about the opportunities they may be missing out on by staying in an unhappy relationship can help them reframe their perspective and consider the potential gains of seeking new connections.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

Same thing with relationships, but I'm afraid of going out into the dating pool. What if I end up alone? What if I end up in a relationship that isn't as good? And I try to refocus that in two ways. One is if they're worried about being alone, I say, well, what would be worse? Okay, let's imagine being alone. Is it worse than the situation you're in now? Generally, when someone's at the point where they really are thinking about walking away, they usually realize they would be happier alone. So you can sort of get them to sort of think about that in a way that makes it work concrete. And then in terms of the what if I date somebody new and it doesn't work out, I just asked them this simple question. Okay, what's the probability in six months you're going to be happy in the relationship you're in? And they'll usually say, low, like I've put a lot of effort into it. I've tried, we've done couples counseling, so and so forth. So I'm pretty sure I'm going to be unhappy in six months. Okay, so let's say you start dating someone new. What's the chances you're happy with them? Well, I don't know. Is it greater than zero? Yes. So that sort of thinking about what are the opportunities you're giving up? You know, if you're spending money on something that isn't working out, well, what if that money was all of a sudden freed up? What would you go spend it on? What if your time was all of a sudden freed up? What would you go spend it on? That can also be very helpful to sort of reframe it for people in terms of getting them to see the opportunity costs, the stuff that they're missing out on because of what they're doing.

[01:11:42] The Challenge of Quitting Your Identity

🎧 Play snip - 13sec️ (01:13:23 - 01:13:37)

✨ Summary

Quitting your identity is the hardest thing to do. When your beliefs and actions shape your identity, it becomes extremely difficult to detach from them.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 1

So here's the fact. The hardest thing to quit is who you are. And when the things you believe become part of your identity, when what you do becomes part of who you are, it is very hard to walk away from it.

[01:19:28] The Endowment Effect: Why We Value Owned Items More

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:22:01 - 01:22:33)

✨ Summary

The endowment effect leads people to value owned items more than identical items they do not own. This bias applies to not just objects, but also businesses, Ikea furniture and even relationships. People tend to ascribe higher value to items they have invested in, including ideas and possessions, due to their ownership.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 2

Another interesting cognitive bias that we didn't get into in our conversation was the endowment effect. Why we value things that we own more than identical items that we do not own really, really interesting. This extends to more than objects. It can extend to businesses. It really does even extend to Ikea furniture. I built it even though it's broken in lower quality than the thing I already have. But it's worth more because I invested in it. Relationships. We see this happening all the time in relationships. Ideas that people have that they become attached to because it's their own. It's something you should watch out for.

[01:22:39] The Double-Edged Sword of Goals

🎧 Play snip - 1min️ (01:25:11 - 01:25:51)

✨ Summary

Goals are beneficial as they provide focus and motivation to persist, but they can also be detrimental as they may hinder the ability to recognize when it's best to quit. While it's important to have goals, it's equally crucial to acknowledge that they can sometimes impede the decision to quit when necessary, especially for individuals raised with the notion to never give up. This dual nature of goals makes it challenging to determine their appropriateness, often necessitating reevaluation.

📚 Transcript

Click to expand

Speaker 2

I know we talked a little bit about goals during the show and goals get us to focus on the finish line and keep us motivated to keep going. But they are also bad for these exact same reasons. Sometimes we would simply be better off quitting and goals can often inhibit that. Now, it's great to have goals. I'm not going to quit. I have a goal in mind. But this one's going to be very tough for those of us raised to never quit no matter what, because goals both serve the purpose of keeping us motivated and focused in the face of a challenge. But unfortunately, they also keep us motivated and focused in the face of a challenge that might have told us otherwise that we should quit. So it's hard to know what to do with goals. Sometimes they're appropriate and sometimes they need to be reevaluated.